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    Pysical note (Economical impact) LR 1721.....Bear Protection Act

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    HOLLABACK

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    Pysical note (Economical impact) LR 1721.....Bear Protection Act

    Post  HOLLABACK on Sat Apr 27, 2013 8:26 am

    This list is what we come up with so far,as to what impact of lost revenue to our states economy,if this bill passes...please feel free to add any thoughts or strong points that will help fight the fight....I will try to put a $$$$$$ signs to all this for data we can use if needed....

    *Guides lic,fees,gross incomes
    *Lic fees,in state and out of state
    *Lodge'n,.....motels,hotels,camp owners
    *Bait
    *Bait sites
    *Food....Local resturants,dinners,mom&pop stores
    *Local insurance companies
    *Local Hardware stores
    *Local gun shops
    *kennel lic,
    *Local garages
    *Local retailers,.....clothes,boots,hats,ect
    *Local butchers
    *Local Taxidermists
    *Local Maid services
    *Local Vet care
    *Local feed store
    *State tolls from traveling
    *Local coffee shops
    *Cost of problem bears after the fact,(cost to state)
    ECT.......

    Any trappers feel free to share your impact as well so I can figure in your loss as well.....
    All this data is going to be cross referenced with what MPGA,SAM,&,MTA have......hope to add to the list in anyway......This list is what we need to stop things in workshop.....Every suggested bill has to have a pysical note prove'n that it doesnt in any way impact Maines economy......This surely will......with facts in dollar amounts, hopefully, will shut this down before anything else.....I'm sure I'm missing some facts but hope everyone can finalize anything we've missed....Thank-you!


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    Masshole

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    Re: Pysical note (Economical impact) LR 1721.....Bear Protection Act

    Post  Masshole on Sat Apr 27, 2013 8:40 am

    I spend plenty on gas .
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    HOLLABACK

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    Re: Pysical note (Economical impact) LR 1721.....Bear Protection Act

    Post  HOLLABACK on Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:16 am

    This bill has already passed from LR into a LD......LD1474.......Get ready everybody! We need to be on alert for when this workshop comes up! Most likely it will be during the week when everyone is schedualed to work,but we need to flood that place with people......Its very important that everyone shows up......


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    Laneysplott

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    Re: Pysical note (Economical impact) LR 1721.....Bear Protection Act

    Post  Laneysplott on Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:47 pm

    Bill is 100% correct, if you guys enjoy running hounds you need to step up and come to augusta, this is our chance to make a strong statement. The HSUS is gearing up to take our hunting rights away and we are in for a long battle.
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    HOLLABACK

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    Re: Pysical note (Economical impact) LR 1721.....Bear Protection Act

    Post  HOLLABACK on Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:13 pm

    Some interesting facts that are straight from our bioligist that we should live by in this debate......Feel free to use this info at the meeting for fire power.....Our own bioligist know best and with our fact from our state should speak volumn......


    Most people who pursue bear with dogs work to minimize the chasing of
    nontarget animals. Some of the best bear dogs never chase or bark at
    nontargets if they are started with veteran, well-trained dogs. Experienced
    handlers do not put young or inexperienced dogs in situations where they have a
    chance of running a nontarget. If a dog starts a chase on a nontarget, an
    experienced handler will intercept and terminate the chase. This will usually be
    followed by corrective measures.
    How are hounds trained to key in only on bears?
    One of the most effective and common ways of training young dogs is to train
    them with experienced dogs with proven histories of not running nontarget
    animals. Most dogs have a natural tendency to follow other dogs at least for a
    little while. The more bear chases a young dog is involved in, the greater the
    probability it will not stray to nontargets. Any time a dog exhibits a tendency
    toward a nontarget (e.g. barks while riding in the back of a truck at a nontarget
    such as a moose, deer, or coyote), an experienced handler will take corrective
    measures to stop the behavior and will continued corrective measures until the
    behavior is stopped.
    Do hounds ever target species other than bears?
    Hounds may target species other than bears (e.g., coyotes, deer, or moose), but
    it is an uncommon occurrence when the dogs are properly trained. When it does
    7 occur, the nontarget invariably has the speed, endurance, and knowledge of the
    “escape habitat” to out run the dogs. [See also the previous two responses.]
    Would we know if hounds target species other than bears?
    Most of the time a hunter will know if a hound has targeted a species other than a
    bear. Experienced hunters often are familiar with the variation in their dog’s
    voice and behavior at different times during a chase (e.g., whether the track is
    old or new; whether the bear has been “jumped” from a bedding or feeding site;
    whether the dogs are still trailing scent leading to the bear; whether the dogs are
    baying at a walking bear or whether they have the bear “bayed up” in one
    location; whether they have the bear treed; or whether they are chasing a
    nontarget). These are reliable indicators to the handler of what is transpiring at
    any point in the chase.
    How important is hound hunting in managing bears … is it needed to limit
    the bear population?
    The current population objective for bears is to “Stabilize the bear population by
    2005 at no less than current (1999) levels, through annual hunting and trapping
    harvests.” We estimate that the population has increased since 1999, and that
    an annual harvest of between 3,500 and 4,000 bears is required to reach the
    population objective.
    Over the past ten years (1993-2002) the mean percentage of the bear harvest
    that was derived from hound hunting was 11.6% ± 0.7% (mean ± standard error).
    The highest percentage of the bear harvest attributable to hound hunters was in
    1993 when hunters using hounds took 15.4% of the harvest. In general, as the
    bear harvest has increased the last 10 years, the percentage of bears taken by
    hunters using hounds has decreased slightly.
    If the bear harvest from hound hunters was removed from the total bear kill, an
    average of 3,355 ± 123 bears would have been harvested annually during the
    period 1999 to 2002. Given this lower harvest figure, the Department would not
    have achieved its current harvest objectives (i.e., a harvest of between 3,500 and
    4,000 bears annually).
    Does hunting with hounds bring in significant revenue that is used to
    manage bears?
    In 2002, there were 375 bears taken with the aide of hounds. The average
    hound hunt was $1,581 for those guides advertising their prices on the Internet.
    If we assume there were 1,4621
    hound hunters in 2002 and that all hound
    hunters were guided, up to $2,311,422 was generated for Maine's economy last
    1
    (1462 hound hunters = 375 bears harvested ÷ a success rate of 0.2565)
    8 year. This income gets distributed through the community when guides purchase
    bait for attracting bears, veterinary care and food for their dogs, food and lodging
    for their clients, and other equipment purchases.
    Direct contributions to the Department come from sales of hunting licenses and
    bear permits. Again, If we assume there were 1,462 hound hunters in 2002 and
    that 702 (48%) and 760 (58%) of the bear permits were purchased by
    nonresidents and residents respectively, the total economic impact of hunting
    bears with hounds to the Department is estimated to be $138,740.
    Permit
    Type of Permit # Sold Cost Total Cost
    NR Bear Permit 702 $65 $ 45,630
    NR Hunting License 702 $85 $ 59,670
    Resident Bear Permit 760 $25 $ 19,000
    Resident Hunting License 760 $19 $ 14,440
    Financial Impact to the Department (Hound Hunters) $138,740
    Money generated from license and permit sales is not dedicated to the
    management of a certain species, but rather is pooled for Department-wide use.
    Therefore, any loss of funds from bear license and permit sales may affect the
    management of other wildlife.
    Pennsylvania hunters kill more than 2,000 bears annually without the aid of
    hounds.
    Other states have reported being able to harvest significant numbers of bears
    without the aid of baits or hounds, but most of these states can be characterized
    as being western states with very open habitats and concentrated bear
    populations, or eastern states with predominantly hardwood stands and open
    undergrowth. States like Pennsylvania have large numbers of bear hunters who
    are allowed to drive bears. We question whether 3,500+ bears can be harvested
    in Maine via stalking or still-hunting because of Maine’s dense under story and
    vast and varied wetlands that help bears remain secluded.
    Is hound hunting stressful to wildlife?
    With hounds and bears, the odds favor the bear. Bears are in much better
    shape, are adapted to environmental conditions, and know the terrain. Pursued
    bears will only run as fast as the fastest dog and will actually walk on the long
    chases (Brad Allen, personal communication). The duration of the chase
    usually depends on the age and physical stamina of the bear. Experienced dog
    9 handlers frequently terminate a chase after 2-3 hours, especially when pursuing
    a small bear, because they know it’s very unlikely they will tree the bear.
    Relaying packs of dogs (with fresh dogs) into chases is a different story, but with
    Maine’s 4-dog limit the odds are that the bear will outrun the hounds.
    “Treeing” occurs if/when the bear becomes sufficiently pressured by hounds.
    During 17 years of working with bear dogs, Department regional wildlife biologist
    Doug Kane never saw a bear collapse or die during or after (i.e. collared
    research bears) a chase.
    It is understandable for people not experienced in hunting with dogs to imagine
    that the barking of dogs pursuing bears causes significant disruption to other
    wildlife species. Most animals not being pursued by dogs usually stop and listen
    for a short time, move a short distance away, or they don’t react at all (Elowe
    1990).
    Literature Cited
    Craighead, J.J., J.S. Sumner, and J.A. Mitchell. 1995. The Grizzly Bears of
    Yellowstone. Island Press, Washington, DC.
    Elowe, Kenneth D. 1990. Bear hunting with hounds: techniques and effects on
    bears and the public. Eastern Workshop Black Bear Res. And Manage. 10:1990
    McLaughlin, C. R. 1998. Modeling effects of food and harvests on female black
    bear populations. Ph. D. Thesis, Univ. Maine, Orono. 263pp.
    Reiling, S. D., M. R. Teisl, and K. J. Boyle. 1991. Highlights from the 1988
    survey of bear hunting in Maine. Dept. Agr. Res. Econ. Staff Paper Series in
    Res. Econ., ARE 430, Univ. Maine. 5pp.


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    DogChaser

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    Re: Pysical note (Economical impact) LR 1721.....Bear Protection Act

    Post  DogChaser on Sun Apr 28, 2013 4:23 am

    With this being from several years previous, the cost of things have increased drasticly...just think how much higher the states revenue from hunting with hounds increased over the last 10 years! You could probably double it!


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    HOLLABACK

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    Re: Pysical note (Economical impact) LR 1721.....Bear Protection Act

    Post  HOLLABACK on Sun Apr 28, 2013 4:39 am

    10-4! I agree on that! This info supports our theory about the impact it would have and the data for now is surely in our favor even more....Also looking into the cost of nusience bear control as well......The funding that is lost from these licenses was stated that it is disbursed to the whole inland fisheries and wildlife for all species of game animals as well as whatever budget calls for such as bioligist,studies,nusience calls ect......so that impact would be threatened as well.....and need to still be managed with money that would need to come from somewhere.......We all know what that means.....When they start trying to jack the price of other recreations to pay for this other sport enthusists will feel the crunch....


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    mugger

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    Re: Pysical note (Economical impact) LR 1721.....Bear Protection Act

    Post  mugger on Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:21 am

    10-4 I'll be there. Thank you for the great info Bill!-Ben
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    Laneysplott

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    Re: Pysical note (Economical impact) LR 1721.....Bear Protection Act

    Post  Laneysplott on Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:26 pm

    there where over 800 nuisance bear complaints last spring- summer in maine, the population is growing and we are not meeting the dept. harvest goal off 4000 with the tools we have, just some more info some might include in testimonys.
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    HOLLABACK

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    Re: Pysical note (Economical impact) LR 1721.....Bear Protection Act

    Post  HOLLABACK on Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:40 pm

    Great info Paul! Thats not to mention bears that were'nt called in about...If the quota cannot be met by the departments standards, we all know how these number will exsplode with a added cost to the state that already is struggle'n in this area....Then with competition for food they'll be double'n the complaints first few years......


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    brandon salls

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    bears

    Post  brandon salls on Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:02 pm

    Kinda like turkeys were never heard of them years ago, now there absoultly everywhere with higher bag limits. It's a far stretch but it'd be nice to have an earlier dog season in the spring as well to help maintain sustable populations of bears. My brother is an ADC guy and he gets bear complaints almost every day in the spring and early summer.
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    HOLLABACK

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    Re: Pysical note (Economical impact) LR 1721.....Bear Protection Act

    Post  HOLLABACK on Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:11 pm

    Now dealing with a virus they are starting to carry around!......People have to understand,without management& Harvesting disease and starvation will take over when population numbers get out of control......The misinformed need a reality check that great management is'nt done by emotions......


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